In this podcast Patrick Gray talks to Tom Uren about which national security concerns around TikTok are actually the “real ones” in light of Christopher Wray’s congressional testimony last week. They also talk about changes to NSPM-13, the rules governing Cyber Command operations and the looming Executive Order on commercial spyware. You can read the newsletter this podcast is based on here.

The Audio tag isn’t supported and neither is flash… You could always download the file and play locally.